Posts by mark menser

12

UK Data Protection Act

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the address below (posted originally on h2o by sharia) leads to a rather interesting page giving a suggested communique' to the wt to demand destruction of personal records that are being kept regarding yourself.. it is based upon the uk data protection act.

anybody in the uk tried something like this?

did it work?

mark menser

Thanks for your replies.

Does anyone know if the signature on the card authorizes them to hold other info - or to pass such info to another congregation without consent. I seem to remember that the clause I signed on the card in another EU country said something like field service data on this card and - (paraphrasing) - anything else that the elders might feel beneficial for my spritual nature. Could someone confirm this and perhaps add their thoughts on whether this is legal.

I am determined to stop them from jdging me on the basis of field service and how much I chose to comment at meetings. I also do not wish them to comment on the mental health of my wife and neither does she (although she still seems loyal to the org or at least believes that every hour she spends on the ministry is for Jehova and not for the org). It is enough that elders here have tried to pressure me to influence her on what medical treatment she should seek.

My wife believes that the best thing is to move to another congregation where we will not mention anything about any health problems to anyone. However I just need a way to prevent them from writing anything. She feels that they would not write anything anyway but I think thats a bit naive.

I do not wish to be judged as spriritually immature at the next congregation. I simply can not wholeheartedly support this org - which means I just wish to keep a low profile and be left alone. Is that so hard to achieve? I also don't want anyone to influence my wife in medical matters. Elders may mean well but they are untrained and can cause so much damage because they believe that the Jehova guides them through the org on any matter.

12

UK Data Protection Act

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the address below (posted originally on h2o by sharia) leads to a rather interesting page giving a suggested communique' to the wt to demand destruction of personal records that are being kept regarding yourself.. it is based upon the uk data protection act.

anybody in the uk tried something like this?

did it work?

mark menser

I live in the UK and on one change of congregation the letter the elders sent contained some stuff which really upset me. It went on about supposed marriage problems even though my wife or myself never mentioned anything about our marriage to anyone and we both felt that what they had written was simply speculation. Just because I was not regular at meetings because of work pressures does not mean there are any marriage problems does it?

In future I would seriously consider trying to stop them from sending any info to the next congregation - other than perhaps the card. Does anyone have any ideas how I could go about it? I am sure what they wrote last time was illegal under the data protection act.

I also signed the card. It is interesting that as far as I remember the UK card just authorizes them to keep a record of the field service data, whereas a card I signed in another EU country had a clause saying something like "plus any other info that the elders might find necesarry for my spiritual welfare" - that could be stretched to the limit and I don't believe it can be legal - especially when you consider the damage this info causes.

This has really affected me personally and I would be greatful for any ideas.

9

Excellent article on WTBS Abuse Policies

by Pathofthorns in

this link to a news article on the society's policies on handling abuse cases is perhaps one of the best ever.

it is not an easy read however.

in fact some might find it quite painful and disturbing, but it appears to present the facts quite well.. i think all who were involved in this and could come forward to help out in the matter should be commended.

mark menser

This is the best info I have read on this subject. It is well rounded and plausible info. It's a pity that the WTS is primarily concerned with its public image and costly lawsuits.

I still believe that a lot of responsibilty lies with the elders themselves to use their brains in such a situation. Of course if you get a fanatic that insists on handling everything "in house" and the allegations can not be proven because there are no experts involved.

I was in a situation some time ago that where I was told by elders that they could not do anything scriptually. I asked them what the proper view about taking steps of my own would be (today I would not bother asking) and they said that it is was my responsibility to do everything in my power to protect the person concerned (in my role as family head). This advice was sensible IMO.

I later discussed the same case with the service department at Bethel who said the same thing but made the point to keep the fact that JW's are involved low key because it would not be important to therapists etc. what religion was involved. At the time I think they were overly concerned with spin rather than empathising with the victim but they did not discourage from seeking external help.

I know that a lot of bodies of elders would react differently. The WTS needs to continue educating elders to take a common sense approach and not emphasise the possible "bad press" too much.

58

Questions for DFShipped...

by LDH in

jw
friends

hi, dfs.. first of all, let me say it is not necessary to label yourself on this board, or anywhere on the internet for that matter.. so many of us have family members that are df'd, it really doesn't hold much water round here.

i did have some questions for you though, which of course you don't have to answer.. 1. why were you disfellowshipped?

(pls.

mark menser

sorry the I don't vote bit was part of a sentence I though I edited out.

I don't vote because I still believe in staying neutral but I would vote if it was compulsory because I don't think Jehova would want someone to go to jail on such a trivial matter as filling in a void ballot or even a valid one if its a "one party election". You are not exactly supporting a dodgy regime by such a vote. There are orgs around that know how much a "free" election is worth in country's with a dodgy regime.

58

Questions for DFShipped...

by LDH in

jw
friends

hi, dfs.. first of all, let me say it is not necessary to label yourself on this board, or anywhere on the internet for that matter.. so many of us have family members that are df'd, it really doesn't hold much water round here.

i did have some questions for you though, which of course you don't have to answer.. 1. why were you disfellowshipped?

(pls.

mark menser

give df'd a break.

he is expressing his opinions which he is entitled to.

he does not agree with everything the WTBS does but has come to a different conclusion i.e. that Jehova may be using an org. that makes mistakes etc.

why can some of you not accept that someone who still believes in some of what the WTBS does may want to post here. If my conscience allows this - why not.

what some of you seem to be saying is renounce the WTBS or stop posting here. in my view posting here and wanting to be reinstated does not make df'd a hypocrite.

sorry for rambling on but this has upset me because now I don't feel as welcome here anymore.

Anyway, about Malawi - with "todays truth" do you think purchasing a party card would be a matter of conscience. I think it probably would. And if that is the case most JW's there would probably decide that their conscience would allow buying a card in order not to get killed.

This is where the GB has made grave mistakes in the past, by wanting to totally control everyone's conscience even if it meant going to jail or loss of life on what some would consider trivial "compromises"
i.e. compulsory voting. I think very slowly this is changing.

I strongly disagree with df'd that nothing has changed re. voting with the Q from readers in the WT. I think this is not about whether it is right or makes sense to support governments that may be replaced by God's Kingdom. I think in such a matters (voting, blood issue) the WTBS has no right to dictate the conscience of JW's.

They used to do this and JW's got jailed or even killed by extreme regimes because of it. Now its a matter of conscince and no one will get jailed, killed or df'd because of this issue. That is a BIG change for the better.

Hope I'm still welcome to post here occasionally.

I don't vote

24

UK Posters/Lurkers

by ISP in

jw
friends

i guess we are the minority around here but please check in or email.. regards to all posters by the way!.

i am from the north west.. regards.

isp

mark menser

Nope

I have been here for around 5 years now.

I am active and go to meetings but have been able to "free my mind" because of a personal experience, lots of soul searching and long hours on the net.

Cheers

Mark

24

UK Posters/Lurkers

by ISP in

jw
friends

i guess we are the minority around here but please check in or email.. regards to all posters by the way!.

i am from the north west.. regards.

isp

mark menser

London

Cheers

Mark Menser

23

Silentlambs-abuse

by Venice in

i've seen some posts here regaring child abuse, pedophila and such.

i'm sure most of you are aware of the poster knon as 'silentlambs' and his posts on h2o and other boards.

here's some links if you missed the posts.

mark menser

This is my first post and I'm not sure if its in the right place.

I have been lurking around and following this topic here and on h20.

I don't think that the WTS willingly harbours abusers. The key point is that they think they are a theocracy and that Jehova will put everything right in the long run i.e. he will eventually "uncover" wickedness in "his" org. That leads to complacency on the part of those in charge e.g. elders. If they are sincere they will perhaps realize what is really going on but will "faithfully" stick to all "bible based" procedures (2 witnesses or victim is silenced). Their conscience may let them get away with it because they think:

1. they are following the directives of Jehovas org
2. Jehova sees what is going on and will put things right in the end
3. there is always the danger of bringing "unrest" in to the congregation if the matter is not kept quiet which could stumble others

Even if the elders are not complacent and deeply troubled by what is going on their hands are tied by WTS procedure. I have been involved in a case (not child abuse) where it was absolutely and shockingly obvious what was going on and everyone involved knew it but the offender knew the rules of the game (just deny everything or better still refuse to talk to anyone) and got away with it (for a while). The elders though most of them seemed sincere just said there is nothing that can be done, keep quiet, pray to jehovah and do more study and more field service (paraphrasing) and eventually Jehova will see to justice if indeed anyone has done anything wrong. In my case the pain was hard to bear. I would hate to think what it would be like for the victim of child abuse and their parent(s).

Silentlambs is to be commended for his stand.

Mark Menser